You woke up in a conundrum, you were born into a conundrum. And I don't care how we label letter or lower our anxiety by going like," Well, let's listen. . . let's not listen. . . it's that. . ."
你每天早上从难题中醒来，你生来就陷入了难题中。我不在意人们怎样标签化 怎样降低我们的焦虑说：”要倾听……不是这样…… 要那样……”
Let's just talk about this shared mystery that we're soaking in. I want to be careful talking about depression because I have a friend who was very depressed.
那咱们就来聊聊我们所深入研究的这份共享的神秘。我想谨慎地来探讨这个问题，因为我有过一个曾经非常抑郁的朋友。
And I remember talking to him, out of love, trying to explain some of these ideas, some of these ways that we can think and interpret our suffering. And sometimes when someone is suffering, the last thing they want is for you to go: "Hey, there's another way to look at this."
出于关爱，我记得当时跟他聊天，试图向他解释一些观点以及思考和诠释这些痛苦的方法。可当一个人在承受痛苦的时候，最不想听你说的就是：“嘿，咱们可以换个角度来看待问题。”
Maybe that's later. None of this is to be imposed on anybody, and I don't want to belittle or just say, like, "You know, you're brain is. . . that's really. . . it's your attachment to your desire but not be your depress that causing you. . ."
时过境迁之后，你可以这么说。我这些观点并非要强加于人，也不想轻视或轻描淡写地说：“不是，是你的大脑……因为你太执迷，急切地希望自己没有抑郁，这样才使你……”
No, not like that. That is not what I'm saying at all. We can give space to someone's depression.
不是。那些完全不是我所要表达的。我们可以给别人的抑郁留些空间。
We can love them, we can. . . we can just eat some noodles, we can watch some movies. Whatever it is, we can just sit and not talk, that's real stuff.
可以爱他们，或者仅仅是一起吃碗面、看看电影。不管做什么都行，哪怕只是静静地坐着，这才是真正有意义的。
It's a real. . . em, I don't know if you call it. . . disorder, disease, but it's happening. We don't need to coach people through. . . with ideology, right?
我不知道你称之为什么，障碍也好疾病也罢，但那是真实存在的。我们没必要用意识形态来指导别人。
That's been said, if you in a place to talk about this, usually when you not depressed. I found it helpful to step inside what I call the "witness".
我的意思是，你这样说，通常是因为你没有抑郁。我发现，真正走进抑郁症是很有效的，我把这种方法叫做“见证”。
And other traditions call that your "soul"; I believe science might just call it your "phenomenon of your basic consciousness". If you think about when you were born. . . I have a baby girl now.
其它的传统则称之为“灵魂”，我相信在科学领域里，它被称为“基础意识现象”。如果你回想一下你出生的时候……我家有个女宝宝。
She's not thinking an idea yet. She doesn't know she's an American, she doesn't know she lives in California.
她现在还没有任何想法。她不知道自己是美国人，不知道自己住在加利福尼亚。
Just like a ladybug doesn't know it's a Italian. You know, it means. . . it's just awareness. So she's just there.
就像一只七星瓢虫不知道自己来自意大利。你明白吗？就是一种认知，她只是在那。
But slowly over time, we built up what young and others call "the false self", right? So we have the story of who we are: I'm a man and I'm a comedian, I'm a tall man, I have big teeth.
但随着时间推移，我们会慢慢建立起所谓的“虚假自我”。然后开始对自我就有了定义：我是一个男人、一个喜剧演员、是一个高个子男人、长着很大的牙齿。
And all these things and. . . I like the first two Batman movies and I don't drink coffee. Whatever it is. So you built up this identity. And often times, in that identity is where things like suffering or occurings sometimes.
所有这些……还有我喜欢前两部《蝙蝠侠》电影，不喝咖啡等等，就这样建立起自己的身份认知。而通常，正是在身份认同上，我们有时会遭遇一些事情，例如痛苦。
I can't speak for everybody. But I will say that for me, when I've been depressed, and I get depressed, I have irrational about. . . of anxiety.
我不能代表所有人。但对于我而言，当我抑郁的时候，我就会有不理性的焦虑。
I have random. . . like fat ex deliveries of despondency. Just like I don't know what in there, so. . . Well, keep the PJs(pajamas) on.
我会毫无规律地感到绝望，就好像快递递给我一个自己没订的商品那样，我都不知道这里面是个啥。算了，别脱睡衣了。
Cancel everything you're doing today, it's time to take a sad shower. That happens to me, right?
取消今天的所有计划，该去洗个伤心的淋浴了。我就会那样。
So I'm speaking for me, with full respect to other people's processes and their experiences. When I'm depressed, if I can get into that quiet space. . . it's this space that noticing the thoughts.
我完全尊重其他人的经历和感受过程，我只是为自己发声。如果我在抑郁时能进入那片安静的空间，其实正是这片空间让我意识到自己的想法。
So if you think 'I'm hungry', well you just think that 'I'm hungry'. . . it's the thought and the animal and. . . and then we eat, and go,"Thank you." Who's talking to who, really?
举个例子，如果你觉得饿了，你就会产生‘我饿了’的想法，然后要吃东西，然后说，“谢谢。”那是谁在跟谁对话？
I would say that the thought is talking to your awareness, your basic awareness, your awareness. So that was watching your thought.
我认为是你的想法在跟你的意识、你的基础意识说话。其实就是在见证你的想法。
And if you can get into that, you'll see how impartial and unswayed by your life circumstance this witness really is. It's just here, it's neutral, it's just easiness.
如果你能习惯这些，你就明白‘见证’是多么公平，并且不受你生活环境的影响。它就在那，是中立的、舒服的。
It's just this, and it's just watching. It's compassionate, it's involved, it's vested, but it's not really as connected and tied to the events of your life story as you are, as your false self.
它就是这样，它就是观察着。它同情着、关注着，但它不像你自己和虚假自我一样跟你的生活事件捆绑联系在一起。
So, when those depressions happened, I found it helpful - and this is something Run Dass taught me - is instead of identifying with the depression and saying: "I am depressed." Although that is how I might say to somebody.
所以，当我觉得抑郁的时候，Ram Dass 教给我的一些东西对我很有帮助——就是，你不要去认同抑郁症，不要说：“我抑郁了。”尽管我可能会这样告诉别人。
What I'm thinking is - there is depression. I am noticing. . . it's gonna make me cry. . . I'm seeing depression.
但我想说的是——抑郁症是存在的。我意识到、看到了抑郁症的存在……我要哭了。
And you can almost. . . it's not denial, it's real and it's valid. But it's a little bit. . . you're a little bit less in the quicksand.
这样并不是在否认它，因为它是真实的、有依据的。但你还没有达到那种危险境地。
And you go. . . Wow. . . This is what Ram Dass said: "I don't know if people get out of depression like this one. . . look at this one, this is too much." This is. . . but who is noticing it?
Ram Dass 说：“我难以想象人们将如何摆脱这样的抑郁症，看看，太严重了。”但是是谁意识到这点的？
And Ram Dass asked: "Is the part of you that's noticing that depression depressed?" Now I asked my friend that. . . who is depressed and he said 'yes'.
Ram Dass 问：“是意识到抑郁的那部分的你抑郁了吗？”我问了一个抑郁的朋友这个问题，他说：“对，是这样。”
So. . . not everybody is there. Not everybody can get there. In my experience. . . later he did, by the way, we talked about it later.
不是每个人都会到那种程度。顺便提下，事后我们聊起这事，他确实很抑郁了。
In my experience, I've had success in getting into the place that goes. . . there is an impartial part of me that's witnessing whatever the feeling is. And I can rest now.
在我自己的经历中，我曾成功地到达那种境界，就是的确是中立公平的那部分自己，见证着那些感受。并且我可以从中得到安宁。
Ram Dass talks about being a candle that's inside, that isn't swayed or flickered by the wind. It' not. . . it's in a quiet place. And when you go in there, you don't resist the depression, you give it a space.
Ram Dass 把它比喻成心里的一根蜡烛，它身处于祥和之地，不会被风吹到而摇摆、闪烁不定。当你进入那种状态，你不会用力抵抗抑郁情绪，而是会给它一些空间。
You observe it, you don't identify with it, you honor it. Sometimes you medicate it, sometimes you go to therapy.
你观察它、尊重它，而不是认同它。当然，你可以用药物控制或寻求治疗。
I'm not saying that we need to sit in a cave and heal ourselves. But I'm saying that there is some relief to be had, and not identifying as: "I'm this, I'm sad."
我并没有说你一定要闭关去治愈自己。我所说的是，不那样说也可以缓解抑郁，你不用时刻提醒自己说：“我抑郁了，很难过。”
I do it all the time. There is sadness. I'm anxious. There is anxiety.
我经常那样。伤心、焦虑、胡思乱想。
Look at Pete, he is anxious. And this is every great spiritual mystic. . . through all the time, they've always been doing this, saying St Francis called his body as corpse, he was like, "I drag my corpse around. . . the corpse want to eat."
看看皮特，他很焦虑。而每一个伟大的精神通灵者总会有这样的感受，即圣方济各称自己的身体为尸体，他总说：“我要拖着这行尸走肉……这具尸体想吃东西。”
You know what I mean. . . I don't like it because it kind of put it down. But I always kind of like. . . I say to Valerie a lot of time, I go: "Pete's frustrated!"
理解我的意思吗？我不喜欢那样,这是在无视抑郁情绪。我就经常跟Valerie说：“皮特很沮丧！”
You know what I mean? Not "I'm frustrated! This is real!
明白我的意思吗？不要说：“我很受挫！这是真的！
My parents should. . . they should listen more! My dad still want me to be a baseball player!" Oh, look at Pete go.
我父母应该多多倾听！我父亲还是希望我做一名棒球手！”哦，看皮特怎么说的。
Ah, then. . . then you're there. And you're just like. . . you're not being flickered by the wind. Cause that's always gonna be there.
你在那……好像并没有被外界所影响。因为外界因素影响是不可避免的。
And with practice, with meditation, with mindfulness, and with contemplation and study. . . like reading about it, like talking about it, like these. When we're in it, in real time, not necessarily later - at the beginning it goes like this, you're depressed, and later you look back and go: "Oh, I think I was still this watching me."
所以要借助药物，通过练习和时刻的警醒、冥想和学习，比如阅读相关内容和像我这样谈论相关话题。即时的，用不了多久就会产生效果——最开始你会感觉低落，但不久后你回想会觉得：“哦，我好像还是老样子。”
And then with practice, when it's happening, you can go: "I can witness this in real time." I can go: "That's happening. It's a phenomenon. It's real. It's to be honored. I understand. But it's not who I really am.
通过练习，当抑郁情绪显现时我就能即时感知到。我理解，这是一种迹象，很真实，要被尊重。但这并不是真实的我。
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