印度網友評論:為什麼中國能復興崛起成世界強國,而印度卻不能?

Why has China been able to re-emerge as a world power again, while it has been challenging for other old civilizations like Egypt and India?

為什麼中國能夠重新崛起成為世界強國,而這對埃及和印度等其他文明古國來說卻有挑戰性?

Quora評論翻譯:

Baba Vickram Aditya Bedi, Studied East Asian History in College

Actually, at the end of the Ming period China collapsed economically. India became the largest Economic power in the world and this continued from 1600 until 1757 when the British involved themselves in annexing and then plundering Bengal and then the entire Indian Subcontinent. However, India actually had been in a better position than China throughout this period. As India, had the Marathas and Sikh Empires which would have unified India under dynamic leadership had the British not interfered in India’s affairs. The most modern army in Asia was actually Maharaja Ranjit Singh’s, and so long he lived the British dared not challenge him. The Sikh Empire was only conquered in 1846 and this was long after China had succumbed to the opium war and had been divided into sphere of influence. The last vestiges of Indian rule only disappeared in 1857 when the last Mughal was stripped of his throne. Even under colonialism, India remained wealthier than China.

實際上,在明朝末年,中國經濟就崩潰了。從1600年開始,印度成為了世界上最大的經濟強國,這種情況一直持續到1757年,直到英國吞併了孟加拉然後掠奪了整個印度次大陸。在此期間,印度實際上比中國處於更有利的地位。如果英國不干涉印度事務的話,印度在馬拉地和錫克教帝國強有力的領導下或能實現統一。亞洲最現代化的軍隊實際上曾是印度王公蘭吉特•辛格的軍隊,如果他還活著,英國人就不敢挑戰他。錫克教帝國直到1846年才被征服,這是在中國輸了鴉片戰爭並被劃分為勢力範圍很久之後才發生的。直到1857年,最後一個莫臥兒王朝被剝奪王位後,印度統治的最後遺蹟才消失。即使在殖皿煮義統治下,印度仍然比中國富有。

The only time that China has led is since 1990. Even in that year India was economically better off than China. It is noteworthy as China had their economy open for nearly 12 years then. India only opened it’s economy in 1991. And in effect India today is a 2.5 trillion dollar economy exactly what China was 12 years ago. And India is growing at 6–8% per year. Which means in 16–20 years, India will be a 10 trillion dollar economy, just like China is today. But, India will have done this without, China’s cultural revolution, without a forced one child policy and of course without completely becoming reliant on manufacturing. More Indian assets are owned by regular Indians than in China. And unlike China, India has freedoms and a democratic system. It may cost India 10 extra years, but it is worth it. India does not want to be China. Indians do not to want destroy their culture, historical buildings, religions and mythology. There has been no famine since 1947 in India. .. India has remained true to it’s historic past and has taken the harder road to development. In 1947 the West believed that India would not make it, and would breakup. But, no that has not happened, in fact when China attacked India in 1962, we came together to light the candle of Indian unity. And India moves towards full development today and it is certain that is shall be achieved. Just as India did the impossible in the 1970’s and became a food exporter for the first time since 1757. And this was done as a nation partitioned in 1947. India did not invade other countries to achieve goals. India has made it to Mars, and is the first Asian country to do this. The young demographic of India is far more favorable than an aging China which still has not become a rich nation but instead grown grey first. In the coming decades massive infrastructure projects will occur in India. The end result shall be that India and China shall both have in large part their historical places back in the world. The onus is on both nations to again foster a relationship as was present when Buddhism, Indian Philosophy, Mathematics and Astronomy were sent to China from India. And Chinese students came to study at the world’s first university, at Nalanda in India. This has been described as the greatest human interchange in history. As it continued for nearly 1500 years. For the sustained growth of humanity it is essential that both India and China must again display the same maturity that they both possessed in this past age. As the Indian Elephant and Chinese Dragon must lay in peace to safeguard the progress which has come with so much sacrifice after the degradation of colonialism.

中國唯一一次比印度領先是在1990年之後。即使在那一年,印度的經濟狀況也比中國好。值得注意的是,當時中國的經濟已經開放了近12年。印度的經濟在1991年才開始開放。實際上,今天的印度是一個2.5萬億美元的經濟體,和12年前的中國完全一樣。印度的年增長率是6-8%,這意味著在16-20年內,印度將成為一個10萬億美元的經濟體,就和今天的中國一樣。就算不像中國那樣實行文革、強制性的獨生子女政策以及完全依賴製造業,印度也能做到這一點。和中國相比,印度財富更多是掌握在普通印度人手裡。印度不想成為中國,不想破壞自己的文化、歷史建築、宗教和神話。自1947年以來,印度沒有發生過饑荒。中國則不然。印度保持了其悠久的歷史,選擇了更加艱難的發展道路。1947年,西方認為印度不會成功,認為印度會。但是,這種情況並沒有發生,事實上,當中國1962年攻擊印度時,我們聚集在一起,點燃了印度團結統一的蠟燭。如今印度正朝著全面發展的方向前進,這是肯定會實現的。就像印度在1970年代完成了不可能的事一樣,印度在1970年代第一次成為食品出口國,這是自1757年以來的首次突破。要知道印度在1947年才實現印巴分治。印度沒有為了實現目標而入侵其他國家。印度已經成功登陸火星,並且是第一個登陸火星的亞洲國家。印度的年輕人口多,比老齡化的中國更受歡迎,中國未富先老。在未來的幾十年裡,印度將大規模修基礎設施。最終,印度和中國都將在很大程度上重塑各自在世界上的地位。兩國有責任重新建立一種關係,就像佛教、印度哲學、數學和天文學從印度傳入中國時一樣。中國學生曾經來到印度那爛陀的世界第一所大學學習。這被稱為人類歷史上最偉大的交流,這種交流持續了將近1500年。為了人類的持續發展,印度和中國必須再次表現出他們在過去那些時代所擁有的成熟。印度象和中國龍,必須保持和平,以維護在殖皿煮義退化之後付出如此巨大犧牲才實現的進步。

印度網友評論:為什麼中國能復興崛起成世界強國,而印度卻不能?

林則徐

Chinese banking system has generated almost $35T (!) of capital, amounting to more than 300% of their 2016 GDP of $11.2T. In contrast, the US banking system has assets of about $16T compared to the US GDP of $18.2T.

中國銀行體系產生的資本近35萬億美元,相當於他們2016年11.2萬億美元GDP的300%。相比之下,美國銀行體系的資產約為16萬億美元,而美國GDP為18.2萬億美元。

The principal asset used to build up this leverage has been their foreign reserves of about $3.2T , as of 2017. Most misunderstand their reserves thinking China spent them to build all the things they did. They actually did not spend any, apart from some to offset recent capital outflows. Instead they effectively used them, and still do, as collateral and base for all this leverage.

建立這種槓桿作用的主要資產是中國的外匯儲備,截至2017年,其外匯儲備約為3.2萬億美元。大多數人誤解了他們的外匯儲備,認為中國用它們來建造自己所需的一切。實際上,除了將部分資金用於抵消近期的資本外流外,沒有任何支出。他們有效地利用這些儲備,將它們作為這些槓桿的抵押品和基礎,現在他們仍然在這麼做。

There are more and more critics coming out that this build-up is unsustainable and the tower of leverage is about to collapse. China retorts that they are awesome and the critics should mind their own bubbles.

越來越多的批評人士指出,這種累積是不可持續的,槓桿之塔即將倒塌。中國則反駁稱,自己好得很,批評人士應該操心自己國家的泡沫才是。

This is the situation the world finds itself in in 2017. All are warning about others and proclaiming everything is peachy in their own backyard.

這就是2017年世界所面臨的形勢,所有人都在警告別人並宣稱自家後院的形勢一片大好。

印度網友評論:為什麼中國能復興崛起成世界強國,而印度卻不能?

印度

Robin Daverman, world traveler

Because the Chinese-style of governmental administration is actually not bad, at least for the Chinese.

因為中國式的管理實際上並不差,至少對中國人來說是這樣。

In both Egypt and India, the ancient civilizations have very little to do with the modern day society. Egypt was conquered by Rome first, followed by a series of Caliphate, finally became a British protectorate before gaining its independence. India was also a British colony before its independence. The civil and political institutions from both Egypt and India are largely British copies which has very little to do with their own culture and civilization. Neither country has had a lot of experience managing this "foreign" style of governing, and both of them run into trouble soon after independence.

在埃及和印度,古代文明與現代社會幾乎沒有什麼關聯。埃及先是被羅馬征服,接著是繼任哈里發的統治,最後淪為英國的保護國,之後才獲得獨立。在獨立之前印度也是英國的殖民地。埃及和印度的公民和政治機構基本上都是英國的翻版,與他們自己的文化和文明幾乎沒有多大關係。這兩個國家都沒有運作這種“外來”治理模式的豐富經驗,所以都在獨立後不久陷入困境。

China, on the other hand, has kept her own style of government for thousands of years, and thus it has had thousands of years building and improving its own civil and political institutions. For example, Egypt ran into the problem of military junta. China experienced military rebellions from powerful viceroys in Tang dynasty around 800 AD. Learning from that experience, China implemented a strict separation of military and civilian administration ever since. So right at the time of PRC foundation, China implemented 10 military administrative areas and 35 civilian administrative provinces, periodic rotation of senior military officers, and complete separation of military from civilian affair. This largely eliminated the risk of military junta interference in civilian administration.

另一方面,中國幾千年來一直保持著自己的政體模式,因此幾千裡來他們一直在建立和完善自己的公民和政治制度。例如,埃及曾遇到了軍事執政團問題。而在公元800年左右,中國經歷了大規模的節度使叛亂。中國吸取了這次教訓,自此實行了嚴格的軍政分離。因此,在新中國成立之時,中國便劃分了10大軍事管理區和35個民事行政省,定期輪換高級軍官,完全實行軍政分離。這在很大程度上消除了軍事執政團干涉民政管理的風險。

印度網友評論:為什麼中國能復興崛起成世界強國,而印度卻不能?

兵馬俑

So I agree with Paul Denlinger - it's really important to have an indigenous government with a profound understanding of its own country, its own people, and its own culture to start with. You can't go chase the latest "-ism" fad while running a huge country!

所以我同意Paul Denlinger的觀點,那就是建立一個對自己的國家、人民和文化有著深刻理解的本土政府是非常重要的。你不可能一邊治理著一個龐大的國家,一邊還在那追逐最新的“XX主義”風潮!

Balaji Viswanathan, History buff.

Let's take the simpler case of Egypt out. Their glorious times came when the rest of the world didn't realize how glorious they were. Since the Hittites found out about Egypt, for the past 3500 years their civilization has become the battleground of outside civilizations - Persians, Greeks, Romans, Arabs, Ottomans, British. To this day, they are dragged into the wars of Middle East. Fortunes of Egypt will primarily depend on peace in West Asia.

我們就用埃及這個較為簡單的例子來說吧。他們的輝煌時代到來之時,其他國家都沒意識到他們有多麼輝煌。自從希泰人發現了埃及以來,在過去的3500年裡,他們的文明已經成為外來文明的戰場——波斯人,希臘人,羅馬人,阿拉伯人,奧斯曼人,英國人。直到今天,他們還被捲入中東戰爭。埃及的命運將主要取決於西亞的和平。

In case of China, the deviation in their fortunes came only a generation ago. Until 1980, both China and India were evenly matched in infrastructure and economy. In short, after first 3 decades of Communist rule in China and democratic rule in India, both nations ended up at the same point. So, is democracy holding India? If Communist Party was helping China, why didn't they not zoom in the first 3 decades post the war? What changed in 1978?

就中國而言,他們的命運在一代人之前就發生了改變。直到1980年,中國和印度在基礎設施和經濟上都勢均力敵。簡而言之,在中國和印度各自統治頭30年之後,兩國的發展處於同一水平。那麼,皿煮是否阻礙了印度的發展?為什麼中國在戰後的前30年裡他們沒有快速發展呢?在1978年發生了什麼變化?

What changed in 1978? That was the start of the Open Door Policy by Deng Xiaoping. China let foreign companies and investors in. They effectively became capitalist. That caused an economic explosion.

1978年發生什麼變化了呢?那一年鄧開始實施改革開放政策,允許外國公司和投資者進入中國市場,促成了經濟的迅猛增長。

印度網友評論:為什麼中國能復興崛起成世界強國,而印度卻不能?

80年代中國

India didn't do that way. Not because we were democratic. But, because we grew up in socialism. If India were not a democracy, it would have been ruled by dictators such as Indira Gandhi who was far from capitalism. India waited for 13 more years and only in 1991 India opened up. And that opening up was not as grand as Deng's policy, but much more cautious. Indian leaders have since then been always at the door not sure if they should become capitalist or not. Not because of democracy. But, because they themselves were not sure of capitalism.

印度卻沒有這樣做,這並不是因為我們是皿煮國家,而是因為我們是在社會主義中長大的。如果印度不是一個皿煮國家,它就會被英迪拉•甘地等與資本主義背道而馳的獨材者統治。印度又等了13年,直到1991年才對外開放。印度的開放政策雖然不像的政策那樣宏大,要謹慎得多。從那以後,印度領導人一直在門口徘徊,不確定是否應該成為資本主義者,他們自己不確定資本主義是否更好。

Now, India has finally got a leader who appreciates capitalism. And the countries are now equally matched in GDP growth.

現在,印度終於有了一位欣賞資本主義的領導人。而印中兩國的GDP增長也不相上下。

Of course, India has a lot of catching up to do given that India took so long a time to appreciate capitalism. That is from that 13 years of extra time lost. China's per capita income of 2004 is same as India's in 2014. The difference in the per-capita incomes of India and China is about $5000. To put that in context, United States & Western Europe have nearly $50,000 more per-capita income than either country [List of countries by GDP (nominal) per capita]. In other words, both have such a long way to go.

當然,考慮到印度花了很長時間才意識到資本主義的重要性,印度要趕上中國還有很長的路要走。印度可是浪費了13年的時間。印度2014年的人均收入僅相當於中國2004年的人均收入。印度和中國的人均收入差距約為5000美元。但美國和西歐的人均收入比任何一個國家(按名義人均GDP排名的國家名單)都高出近5萬美元。換句話說,兩國都還有很長的路要走。

Finally, It is all about attitudes towards capitalism and markets. China is far more capitalist than India and opened up more than a decade early. That's it.

總而言之。這一切都取決於對資本主義和市場的態度。中國的資本主義程度遠遠超過印度,並且在十多年前就實行對外開放了。

Rohini Komarappagari, Education technology experience

Thanks for a2a.

the simple answer is

America give them a hand for their personal benefits.

China is cheapest labor for US. and they are friend country during world war because of Japan attack on China.

India grows because of Software industry and china grows because of production factories and now software outsourcing.

difference is that USA learn Chinese to work with china while India learn English to work with USA.

check out this course on edx to know more about china and usa

ChinaX: China's past, present and future

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Through history, geography, philosophies, literature, politics, economy, art, and ecology.

Modern China presents a dual image: a society transforming itself through economic development and infrastructure investment that aspires to global leadership; and the world's largest and oldest bureaucratic state, with multiple traditions in its cultural, economic, and political life. The modern society and state that is emerging in China bears the indelible imprint of China's historical experience, of its patterns of philosophy and religion, and of its social and political thought. These themes are discussed in order to understand China in the twenty-first century and as a great world civilization that developed along lines different from those of the Mediterranean.

簡單的答案是,美國幫了他們一把。中國為美國提供了最廉價的勞動力。二戰期間,由於日本侵佔中國,中美成為友好國家。

印度的增長得益於軟件產業,中國的增長得益於工廠和現在的軟件外包。

不同的是,美國為了和中國打交道而學習漢語,而印度為了和美國打交道,學習英語。

通過歷史、地理、哲學、文學、政治、經濟、藝術和生態,現代中國呈現出雙重形象:一個是通過經濟發展和基礎設施投資實現自身轉型的社會,渴望成為全球領導者;一個是世界上最大、最古老的官僚國家,在文化、經濟和政治生活中有著多種傳統。中國正在崛起的現代社會和國家有著中國歷史經驗、哲學和宗教模式以及社會和政治思想的不可磨滅的印記。這些主題的討論是為了瞭解二十一世紀的中國,它是沿著不同於地中海國家的路線而發展起來的偉大文明。


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