外國人怎麼看中國人說的有五千年曆史?

外國人怎麼看中國人說的有五千年曆史?

如果問中國人歷史有多少年,正常都會回答上下五千年。對於這五千年,外國人是怎麼看?美版知乎有人問這麼個問題:“Why do Chinese people always like to point out that China has a 5,000 year old history when in fact it is the same for pretty much everywhere on Earth?

  為什麼中國人總是說自己有5000年曆史,但實際世界其它地方都差不多”。討論的有中國人,有外國人,比較有意思,我翻過來大家看看外國人怎麼看待中國“自古以來”這個問題。


Judith Meyer, Reading Chinese novels and visited China Living and working in Berlin(一個生活在柏林的能讀中國小說併到過中國的德國人):

  Because the Chinese identify more with their early history than other places do. For example, French students learn about "the Romans", not "the French nation in 50 BC". Already the naming shows that we consider them a people apart, a people that gave us interesting ideas for sure but not a natural part of our own nation states. For China, the history of "our people" really goes back thousands of years.

  因為中國比其它地方更能確證(注:原文"identify",應該不是“認同”的意思)他們的早期歷史。比如,法國學生學習“羅馬史人的歷史",而不是"公元前50年的法蘭西民族史"。儘管這種叫法表明我們把他們看作是不同的人,是讓我們感興趣的人,但是他們不是我們民族天然的一部分。但對中國來說,談到"我們"的歷史真的就能追溯到幾千年前(注:意指“一脈相承”)

  One of the unifying bands is the written Chinese language. It has changed less than European languages have. Plus the Chinese language is littered with phrases and expressions that were coined hundreds of years before Christ was born.

  一個一脈相承的標誌是中文。中文比歐洲語言變化更小。另外中文混雜了成語和固定用法,這些是在耶穌誕生幾百年前就創造出來的。

  There is also more awareness. Every Chinese child can recite by heart and understand poems that are 1400 years old (try that with Shakespeare, and he's much more recent).

  另外還有,每個中國孩子都能背誦並理解那些1400年前的古詩(換莎士比亞試試,雖然他離現在更近)(注:意指歐洲人,尤其是孩子非人人都能讀莎士比亞)。

  The final reason is that Chinese politicians play it up as a matter of national pride. For example, when China was recently criticized in the foreign news, a Chinese leader said "Whilst monkeys cry incessantly from bank to bank, I have already sailed past a myriad of mountains". This is not just a put-down of the foreign criticism and a declaration that China is already much more advanced, it's also two lines from a Tang dynasty poem that every Chinese person knows (早發白帝城, "Early start from Baidi" by poet Li Bai) - a not-too-subtle hint that China had world class poetry while Europe was overrun by barbarians.

  最後一個原因是中國政治家大力渲染民族自豪感。比如,當中國最近被國外媒體批評,一箇中國領導人說“猴子們在岸邊不斷叫喊著,而我已經駛過無數的群山”。這不只是對國外批評的反駁,同時也聲稱中國歷史上更加先進,也是在中國婦孺皆知的兩句唐朝詩句-一個不算太隱晦的暗示,當歐洲還在被野蠻人蹂躪的時候,中國就已經有了世界級的詩歌藝術。

Andy Lee Chaisiri, in Beijing(北京的Andy Lee Chaisiri):

  Because Chinese identified more by history than by religion

  因為中國更認同歷史而不是宗教(注:意指中國是通過歷史而不是宗教連結起來的)

  Westerners traditionally identified themselves by their religious beliefs and traced back their lineage to the creation of the world. When medieval Europeans talked about their identity, they talked about 'Christendom'.

  西方人傳統上的身份認同是通過宗教信仰並把他們的血統追溯到創世。當中世紀的歐洲人談到他們的身份時,他們說“基督徒”

  Chinese though have traditionally given little thought to creation stories and focus more on social happenings and historic events. Where Abrahemic religions will talk about the coming of messiahs to define their place in time, Chinese will talk about a particular emperor who founded a particular dynasty.

  中國人雖然也有點創世傳說的傳統,但更關心社會變革和歷史事件。當Abrahemic教引用彌賽亞的降臨來劃他們的地盤時,中國人則會討論某個皇帝所建立的王朝。

  In the 21st century though most westerners have moved away from identifying their nation with their religion. As more Westerners seek out a secular measure of their identity though you'll probably see more people talk about how "the Romans never really fell because...", measuring identity like Chinese do today.

  在21世紀,儘管大多數西方人已經不再用宗教來劃分民族。還是有很多西方人找出一個牧師的身份標誌,然後你會看到更多的人說“羅馬帝國從未真正消失因為...”,就像今天中國人在身份認定上所作的一樣。

Dan Volkman:

Everywhere there is history. You are right to say that almost every place has a 5000 year history, but for China it has been almost constant. The Chinese have been relatively in the same place for 5000 years. They have grown from the same culture for quite awhile as well. They excelled much throughout their history, inventing things hundreds of years before the Europeans even thought of it.

  各地都有歷史。你當然可以說幾乎世界各地都有5000年曆史,但對中國來說,歷史幾乎是一脈相承的。5000年來,中國人就生活在那塊幾乎沒變過的土地上。他們繼承自相同的文化。在他們的整個歷史裡,他們都是相當的具有優勢,甚至他們發明的東西都比歐洲人想到的要早幾百年。

  Although explaining every single piece of Chinese history would take years, to put is efficiently: they have survived until this point in time through failures of government, colonialism, and even genocide. They invented gun powder, fireworks, paper (and paper armor, might I add), and knew America existed before Columbus decided to set sail and wipe out thousands of Native Americans for gold.

  儘管要解釋清楚中國歷史的每個片段會花上幾年,簡單的辦法是:他們從政府的垮臺,殖民主義甚至種族屠殺中倖存下來。他們發明了火藥,紙(紙盔甲,我也許該加上這個),在哥倫布決定楊帆出海併為了金子屠殺了數千美洲土著前就知道美洲的存在。

  Portions of Chinese philosophy and philosophical interpretations still exist today through Buddhism, Taoism, Confucianism, and the intermixing of different cultures. And if that isn't enough, there are over 50 plus other ethnic Chinese cultures that exist in China that vary so much amongst each other.

  中國的哲學思想及哲學解釋的遺產仍通過佛教,道教,儒教和其它不同文化的融合而存在於今天的中國。如果這還不夠,有超過50個不同民族的文化共存於中國,而每個和每個都那麼的不同。

  For example, the Uygur are Muslims who are historically Chinese. The Chinese found in Nei Mongol are actually originally from Mongolia, and still live in the grassland areas (albeit with some electricity). The Miao people are the only Chinese ethnic group allowed to use and carry guns in China.

  比如,維吾爾族是穆斯林,歷史上就是中國人。中國的內蒙古族實際上起源於蒙古,仍生活在那片草原。苗族是中國唯一允許持槍的族群。

  The problem I have with this question and with you is that you are phrasing it as a way to insult the Chinese. You are basically asking, "How dare the Chinese brag about 5000 years of history, when other people have histories just as better as they do, if not entirely better."

  對你的問題和你,我有個疑問,就是你的措辭是一種對中國的侮辱。實際上你是想這麼說,“中國怎麼膽敢吹噓5000年曆史,別人的歷史至少也和你們的一樣悠久,如果不是更加悠久的話”

  So let me take back what I said in the beginning. You are not right about the 5000 year history. Considering evidence has gone all the way back to 7000 BC of China's historical existence, I would say it is rather a 9000 year history (OVER 9000!!!!!!!!).

  所以回到我開始所說的。你說5000年曆史是不對的。考慮到公元前7000年前中國歷史存在的證據丟失,我要說應該是9000年的歷史(超過9000年!!!!!!!)

PS:不知道是不是開玩笑……這位竟然說9000.

Jin Yuna(這個好像是中國妹紙):

  Unfortunately, no one here points out that this question itself is incomplete, and even wrong. In addition, history of culture is totally different from history of civilization.

  不幸的是,這裡沒人指出這個問題是不完整的,甚至是錯誤的。另外,文化史和文明史是完全的不同。

  In fact, 5000-years history, often mentioned by Chinese people, is the history of civilization, though the length is still controversial due to different standards.

  實際上,中國人經常說到的5000年史,是文明史,但這個歷史長度也因不同標準而有所爭議。

  For me, I agree with the generally accepted view that China has a 5000-year history of culture and a 3600-years history of civilization(from 1600 BC).

  對我來說,我同意被普遍接受的觀點,中國有5000年的文化是,和3600年的文明是(從公元前1600開始)。

  Though China's history of civilization starts from 1600 BC, lastest among the four major ancient civilizations, it is the longest consistent civilization in the human story so far.

  雖然中國的文明是是從公元前1600開始的,也是4大文明中最晚的,但卻是人類歷史上延續時間最長的文明。

  Shouldn't Chinese people be proud of our great history of civilization?

  難道中國人不應該為我們偉大的文明史感到驕傲?

Matthew Sutton, Artist / Structural Engineer(畢業於斯坦福的一個藝術家/建築工程師):

  Because the Chinese people can look back at 5000yrs of (more or less) continuous recorded history. Sure, humans have walked the earth since paleolithic times but the Chinese can tell you the names of kings and capitals older than the Egyptian pyramids--and it's their own history. That's slightly different than Europeans tracing their history back to Italy-->Greece-->Egypt-->Near East.

  That a people can draw from that much of their own regional history is pretty astounding when you think about it.

  因為中國人能回望5000年(也許長點,也許短點)的持續記錄的歷史。當然,人類從舊石器時代開始走遍地球,但中國人能告訴你所有國王(注:這裡用的是"King",只能譯成國王,實際中國歷史自始皇開始都叫皇帝)和首都的名字,比埃及金字塔還早--而且這是他們自己的歷史。這和歐洲人有些不同,歐洲人這樣回溯他們的歷史,意大利->希臘->埃及->近東。


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