2019-12-09 22:55:00 老外趣評

眾所周知，世界四大文明古國分別是古巴比倫、古埃及、古印度與中國，著名的《世界文明史》中也寫到，世界五大文明發源地分別是古巴比倫、古埃及、古印度、中國、古希臘，並沒有權威機構能夠證明“古朝鮮”是世界古文明發源地之一。因為國際上對古文明的判定是有標準的，首先要具備獨立的文字、創建城市和製造青銅器等等，需滿足這些條件才能夠被認定為古文明之一，顯然韓國不具備這些條件。以文字舉例，在公元約6-9世紀開始，高麗就在採用漢字來作為書寫文字，直到20世紀初才大量使用“朝鮮諺文”代替漢字，僅憑這一點，韓國就註定無法成為文明古國。

韓國如今牟足了勁，滿世界宣揚他們擁有5000年曆史，引起了各國網友們的關注熱議，其中有一位美國網友在美版知乎上問道“韓國真的有5000年曆史嗎？”得到了各國熱心網友們的分析解答，讓我們看看他們是怎麼說的吧。

朝鮮半島古代使用的漢字

網友回答1：

The 5000 year old history and culture is definitely claim known and promoted throughout Korea and talked about by Koreans when promoting tourism. Just Google "Korea 5000 year history" or "Korea 5000 year culture" and you will see. There is even a day in Korea commemorating this.

I don't know where Koreans got 5000 years from. They are probably looking at some archaeological discoveries from 5000 years ago showing evidence of some primitive culture that has no shown connection to modern Korean culture. As for written evidence, you could claim of Gija Joseon as evidence (which is now denied by Korean historians) would go back about 4000 years to the start of the Zhou

In my opinion, the Korean claim of 5000 years is just to match the Chinese claim. Koreans didn't want to claim more than 5000 years because the evidence is very flimsy and 5000 is probably something they could get away with (and Koreans have)

他們聲稱5000年的歷史和文化是確鑿的，並在整個韓國進行推廣，韓國曾推廣旅遊業的時候也在這樣說。只要谷歌“韓國5000年的歷史”或“韓國5000年的文化”，你就會看到。韓國甚至有專門的一天來紀念這個節日。

我不知道韓國人5000年從哪裡來。他們可能是在研究5000年前的一些考古發現，這些發現表明，一些原始文化與現代韓國文化沒有任何聯繫。至於書面證據，你可以把朝鮮王朝作為證據(現在被韓國曆史學家否認了)，這可以追溯到4000年前的周朝。

在我看來，韓國5000年的歷史只是為了和中國相匹配。韓國人不想聲稱自己擁有5000年以上的歷史，因為證據很不可靠，5000年可能是他們可以僥倖逃脫的說法。

網友回答2：

it's just like japanese believing that their nation was first established by 660 BC. The time when was neolithic age for Japan. However, based on Chinese documents, first Korean kingdom is estimated to be established before 1000 BC.

就像日本人認為他們的國家是在公元前660年建立的一樣。這是日本的新石器時代。然而，根據中國文獻，第一個朝鮮王國估計建立於公元前1000年之前。

網友回答3：

Well, according to Korean nationalists, pretty much the whole of human civilisation originated from Korea, so I wouldn't put much store on it. You can see an example in this thread, where a Korean individual is essentially claiming that the Qing dynasty was Korean.

嗯，根據韓國民族主義者的說法，幾乎整個人類文明都起源於韓國，所以我不會太看重這個問題。你可以在這個帖子裡看到一個例子，一個韓國人聲稱清朝是韓國的。

網友回答4：

it think its around 3000-4000 years but cant say for sure. like most ancient history we have to make rough estimates

韓國認為他們大約有3000-4000年的歷史，但不能肯定。像大多數古代史一樣，必須做出粗略的估計。

網友回答5：

You can't include myths as part of your "history". That's why we don't study the Hsia/Xia dynasty as part of Chinese history, because of a lack of archaeological and textual support. In Korea, the earliest archaeological evidences of complex state and social hierarchy date to the 3rd and 4th cen AD, and texts recording history came after that.

The emergence of the early Korean and Japanese states are all largely the results of Chinese migration. Though they each have their own original and distinct cultures in the beginning, the arrival of new cultural influence, concepts and technologies spurred enormous changes, including the emergence of states. The Chinese migrants also became the ruling elites for a period, but they eventually became the locals. The early political structure and writings of these two states are both based on the Chinese model, so it's not wrong to say that the early Japanese and Korean states are part of the East Asian Civilization, just like the Roman Empire emerged from the Mesopotamian and Ancient Greek civilizations.

你不能把神話作為你的“歷史”的一部分。這就是為什麼我們不把夏朝作為中國歷史的一部分來研究的原因，因為缺乏考古和文獻的支持。在朝鮮，最早的複雜的國家和社會等級制度的考古證據可以追溯到公元3世紀和4世紀，記錄這段歷史的文獻在那之後出現。

網友回答6：

They don't stop at 5000, some extreme korean nationalists even claim that they have 6000, 8000, or even 10000 years of history, LOL.

It really depends on how you define history. If you think that the Samhan states were the beginning of korean history, then that's about 2000 years; if you think unified Silla to be the beginning of korean history, it's about 1300 years or so.

他們不僅僅停留在5000年，一些極端的韓國民族主義者甚至聲稱他們有6000年，8000年，甚至10000年的歷史，哈哈。

這取決於你如何定義歷史。如果你認為三韓時期是韓國曆史的開端，那就是2000年左右;如果你認為統一新羅是韓國曆史的開端，那大約是1300年左右。

網友回答7：

Korea as a single entity did not appear until the 7th century AD with the unification of the peninsula. However, I believe Koreanic history goes back to at least 300 BC.

朝鮮作為一個單一的實體直到公元7世紀半島統一後才出現。然而，我認為朝鮮的歷史至少可以追溯到公元前300年。

網友回答8：

8、No, Korea does not have 5000 years of history as the ancestors of Koreans did not record events of the past 5000 years ago.

不，韓國沒有5000年的歷史，因為他們的祖先沒有記錄5000年前的事件。

網友回答9：

You cannot extend American history back to Africa. Generally people start the US at 1776 when the identity was born with the Declaration of Independence. You can go back to the pilgrims as part of American pre-history, but no further.

你不能把美國曆史追溯到非洲。一般來說，人們認為，1776年《獨立宣言》確立了美國的成立。你可以把清教徒作為美國史前的一部分，但不能再往前追溯了。

網友回答10：

10、My personal experience with Korean nationalists, including Korean nationalist historians, is that they simply regard anything that's not explicitly excluded from Gojoseon in Northeast Asia, to be Gojoseon territory, which is, of course, not in any way academic/objective. Indeed, had that been the case, it'd have made the events of the Han Dynasty's invasion of Gojoseon absurd, because the Han Dynasty only ever sieged one city - Wiman's capital - to bring down the whole state. I understand that the nationalist response to this is that by this time, Gojoseon had split into many different states, and so the Han only defeated a small section of Gojoseon - of course, this is equally ludicrous, as we find no archaeological evidence of such a large centralized power in the region, and there's also no Chinese record of a large Gojoseon state splitting into many pieces.

我個人與朝鮮民族主義者，包括朝鮮民族主義歷史學家打交道的經驗是，他們只是簡單地認為，任何沒有明確排除在朝鮮之外的東西，都是朝鮮的領土，當然，這在任何方面都不是學術或客觀的。

網友回答11：

When I talk about this kind of matter, I don't like to quote reference from countries that are in conflict of interest (which mean Korea, China and Japan).

So let's refer to a difference source - this time I'm picking an article from the UNESCO website:

Let's see what they say:

"... The Joseon Tombs completes the 5,000 year history of royal tombs architecture in the Korean peninsula."

當我談到這類問題時，我不喜歡引用利益衝突國家(指朝鮮、中國和日本)的說法。

讓我們來看看一個不同的來源——這次我從聯合國教科文組織的網站上挑選了一篇文章:

讓我們看看他們是怎麼說的:

“…朝鮮古墓證實了朝鮮半島五千年的皇家陵墓建築史。”

網友回答12：

The phrase "5,000 year history of royal tombs architecture" is a little wonky in itself. Do tombs constitute history in the sense of writing?

This is the same thing I'd argue about the pyramids. The hieroglyphs in the pyramids are history, but the pyramids themselves are not.

回覆樓上：“五千年曆史的皇陵建築”這句話本身就有點不靠譜。陵墓是否構成了文字意義上的歷史?

這和我對金字塔的看法是一樣的。金字塔中的象形文字是歷史，但金字塔本身不是。

網友回答13：

I think a distinction needs to be made between history and historiography. Historiography to me indicates that someone has decided to write down history for the sake of future generations to understand about his time and anterior. History itself doesn't need to be such a formal and conscious work to count as history. Any kind of factual recording, primary of secondary, intended for purpose of preservation qualifies as history in my opinion. The Mycenaean Greeks didn't leave behind any real historical work, but nobody would dispute that they are part of the historical period in Greece.

If we must resort to the strictest definition of historiography, China's history really starts with bronzes, since oracle bone>

我認為需要對歷史和史學進行區分。歷史學對我來說意味著人們決定為後代編纂歷史，以便讓他們瞭解那個時代發生的事情。歷史本身不需要是這樣一個正式和有意識的工作，歷史就是歷史。在我看來，任何以保存為目的的事實記錄，無論是簡單的還是次要的，都屬於歷史。邁錫尼的希臘人沒有留下任何真正的歷史作品，但沒有人會懷疑他們是希臘歷史時期的一部分。

如果非要用最嚴格的歷史學定義的話，中國的歷史應該是從青銅器時期開始的，因為甲骨文不是歷史著作。

網友回答14：

I actually agree with the poster above. When we discuss the history of Iraq, we'd usually include at least references to the Mesopotamian period, even though the Sumerians spoke a language completely unrelated to Arabic. They're part of Iraqi history simply because they lived in a place that is now part of Iraq.

回覆樓上：實際上我同意樓上的說法。當我們討論伊拉克歷史時，我們通常至少會提到美索不達米亞時期，即使蘇美爾人說的語言與阿拉伯語完全無關。他們是伊拉克歷史的一部分，因為他們生活的地方現在是伊拉克的一部分。

網友回答15：

Strictly speaking, history writing in China probably dates to the Western Zhou. In Korea, it is much later, and begins during the Three Kingdoms period. In Japan, it is even later than that.

嚴格地說，中國的歷史記載可以追溯到西周。朝鮮，則要晚得多，始於三國時期。日本，甚至更晚。

網友回答16：

I sincerely doubt that there is 5000 years old Royal Tomb in the Korean peninsula. Dolmens cannot be counted because we have no idea who was placed in them.