視聽導覽｜關於天才畫家Joan的北京首展，獨家導覽！

Joan Cornellà北京個展 現場

西班牙天才漫畫家及插畫家Joan Cornellà的首次北京個展馬上進入了尾聲，藝術看展在展覽快要結束之際，專訪了本次展覽的策展人Christopher Pin McElroy，並推出了這次展覽的獨家視頻，讓我們更加全面立體的瞭解Joan和他的藝術。即使展覽結束了，沒有親臨展覽現場的小夥伴，依然可以通過這次專訪視頻近距離的感受展覽的精彩之處，不留遺憾！

https://v.qq.com/x/page/z0735xhqf7f.html

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查看專訪策展人Christopher

藝術看展獨家出品

M： (看展君)朱筱珏 Michelle

現就讀於美國範德堡大學(Vanderbilt University), 藝術史及德語和德國研究雙專業，2017年夏赴德國柏林自由大學交換，獨自在歐洲揹包旅行9個國家，對歐洲的藝術和當地文化有了更深入的瞭解。2019年春季將前往奧地利的維也納大學進行為期半年的交換。

C：策展人Christopher PinMcElroy

來自西班牙巴倫西亞，是Factotum Productions創始人，公司致力於推廣當代流行藝術和音樂。通過數百場展覽和活動將眾多流行藝術帶入世界觀眾的視野。

以下為視頻文本內容：

看展君 X Christopher

M: Hi Mr. McElroy, so today it’s a pleasure to talk to youabout the exhibition of Joan Cornellà here in Beijing. So first, could youbriefly give us an introduction of the exhibition in general?

McElroy先生你好，今天很榮幸能夠和你一起探討Joan Cornellà在北京的個展。那麼你可以先給我們大致介紹一下這次的展覽嗎？

C: Well, there’s a variety of different paintings and asculpture, and a variety of different sizes. There’re around five differentsizes. There is a representation of his most iconic images like “Free Hugs”,and the selfie culture, something he really investigates in. I think in manyways China might be attracted to it, because we live in a world of selfie, andthe use of mobile phones is so important. He touches on]so many issues likeracism, poverty, selfie, amputation, the relationship we have with signs also.He uses also people who are crippled, or have been amputated, and tries to makefun of it in some way which is a bit edgy. But I guess that’s just a bit aboutall his present and previous works.

此次展出的有一系列不同尺寸的畫作還有一件雕塑。尺寸大概分為5種。他最具代表性的元素有“自由擁抱”，以及他花了很多功夫研究的自拍文化。我覺得從很多方面來看，他的作品在中國都會很受歡迎，因為我們生活在一個無處不自拍的世界，手機也成了生活中很重要的一部分。此外，Joan也很關注種族主義、自拍、截肢等問題，以及我們和“標籤化”事物的關係。以一種另類的的方式把殘疾人和被截肢的人“調侃”了一翻。這些就是他所有作品的一些特點。

M: Awesome. So what about Joan Cornellà as an artistthat intrigues you? What makes him special and apart from othercartoonists?

好的，非常贊！那你覺得Joan Cornellà作為藝術家最吸引你的是什麼呢？是什麼使他與其他漫畫家不同？

C: Well, I think that’s why most of the people comehere. This contrast between the very deep, impactful, social meaning, thingsthat we are normally offended by, or generally we don’t speak about it openly,or even if we see it, it’s hidden from society. So he uses these images, whichare funny, and at the same time they are very meaningful. And this contrastbetween things that he laughs about, so it’s entertaining and it’s moving, andthought-provoking, and makes you think. And also he uses these bright colors. It’svery attractive aesthetically. It looks very well good, what he does. He usessuper small pieces of information, like a small wrinkle in the face, on themouth, and this can be so much meaning. I think people come here because theyhave fun. Many people have different ideas, about the meanings of the painter.It’s entertaining, and it’s thought-provoking. I think that’s the two coreideas behind it. And aesthetically it’s beautiful.

我覺得這正是人們來這裡參觀的原因。事物的反差有著深刻的寓意和社會影響力，但這些卻很少能在社會中看到。比如我們被冒犯，或是看到別人被侵犯的話，基本上不會去公開談論。因此他使用這些有趣又意義豐富的圖像來表達這種感覺。對於這種反差，他其實有些嘲笑的意味，作品表現出來就兼具娛樂性和啟發性，讓人們去思考。色彩明亮也很有美感。他做得真的很棒。像是臉和嘴上的細紋這種極小的信息都能表達很多內容。人們來這裡（參觀）無非是能夠“樂”在其中。不同的觀眾對藝術家有不同的看法。當然最核心的是人們覺得作品足夠有趣、足夠發人深省。從美學角度來看，作品也是很漂亮的。

M: Could you explain some of the meanings behind some ofthe works here that you think are most representative of Cornellà’s work orthat are very significant to you as a curator?

你能否和我們說一下此次展覽中最具代表性的作品的背後含義，或者你認為對於策展人而言，什麼是最重要的？

C: I’ve said this many times. The meaning of hispainting is in the eye of the person who sees it. During all these two years ofhaving been working with him, I’ve had the chance to be close to people who aretrying to understand, or trying to convey a meaning, or have a meaning, and seethe meaning behind it. The things you hear are so different and varied. Sosometimes I tell this to Joan, I heard these people saying that, this is themeaning behind this painting, and this could also be it. He always says when hestarted to draw, he has an idea about, an initial idea, but the painting has atwist and ends up doing something totally different. So I guess there are manymeanings. I guess most of these ones, maybe the selfie, you know the “SelfieGun”, which is not here, I think there’s even violence in this situation of theselfie culture. And people, even that Joan, and his work is criticizing selfieculture, people come here, and do selfies with the painting. So it’s like theyare sabotaging the own meaning of the painting. The other day we were with thestaff here, and I think, we always ask ourselves, “Why Joan is so famous? Whatis attractive to Asian people. And one girl, she’s working, she says, yoursurrealisms are reality. For instance, this girl, I think it was quite someweeks ago, this girl was going to commit suicide from a building, she was goingto jump. Before she jumps, she made four selfies for herself. And she jumpedand she killed herself. And she posted those selfies on the social media.

我提到過很多次，畫的意義由看展人說了算。在和Joan合作的兩年間，我曾和很多人近距離接觸過，有人試著去理解或傳達一個理念，有人則可以構思出一個概念並看到它背後的含義。大家說的各有千秋，所以有時我和Joan說，人們說的這些就是作品背後的含義，也可以當作是作品的意義。他常和我說，在作畫時，一般有個初始的概念，但在畫的過程中會經歷一些“波瀾”，最後呈現出的作品就會完全不同。所以我想（一個作品）會有很多含義。這些作品中的很多內容，拿自拍來說，自拍槍這幅畫（沒有在這裡展出）就暗含暴力元素。Joan和他的作品都在批判自拍文化，人們來這兒看展和畫自拍，似乎影響了畫的本質。前幾天我和畫廊的工作人員聊天，我們互問對方，“Joan為什麼這麼有名？亞洲人對什麼感興趣？”一個在這裡工作的女孩說到，超現實主義就是現實。舉個例子，好幾個星期以前，這個女孩打算跳樓自殺，在跳之前，拍了4張自拍，然後縱身一躍自殺了。她把這些自拍發到社交軟件上。

M: The themes of some of his works are really dark, andthey touch upon a lot of social taboos, so while planning the exhibition inBeijing, have you encountered any difficulties? Is the choice of the works herelocation-specific?

他的不少作品都是暗黑的主題，觸到了很多社會禁忌，那麼於你而言，在策劃北京的個展時，有遇到哪些問題嗎？在這裡展出的作品的選擇是否考量了北京當地文化的因素？

C: I think one of the good things of his work, it’sneat, it doesn't have language, and it attracts. I mean, everybody can feel,any society, we’ve been to many places in Europe, or the United States, andeverybody understands this work, because it relates to us. Even games, gamesthat you do when you’re a kid. These games have been played by kids all aroundthe world. So I guess that’s one of the good things, that doesn't matter whereyou go... and to answer this question, location-specific, his work attractsdoesn't matter where it goes, it’s understood by any society around the world.I mean, of course we have to go through a long process of these artworks beingapproved. His work is, you could say, polemic, is edgy, is not like... I mean,there’re some of his works, they are quite brutal, we could say. That’s why wedon't allow under 16 to come in, because of these scenes of violence. Eventhere’s like a funny part to it, the scenes of violence, explicit sex, or manyother things. But to be said, we did encounter some kind of problems to passthrough many of the artworks we wanted to exhibit here. But on the overall,we’re quite happy because a lot got through. I think it’s a very goodrepresentation of his works.

作品其中的一個好處就是簡單，不需要任何語言就能吸引人。我們去過歐洲的很多國家，也去過美國，任何社會中的任何人都能理解他的作品，因為它和我們息息相關。就像你兒時玩的遊戲，也是適用於全世界的孩子的。所以這就是他的作品的一個好處，與你在哪裡無關。現在回答第二個這個問題。他的作品受歡迎不在於去了哪裡辦展，而是可以被任何社會接納。當然，為了成功設展，我們也費了不少力氣。你可以說他的作品是有爭議的、讓人心裡發毛的，甚至可以說一些內容是暴力、殘忍的，因此我們不讓16歲以下的人來。其中可能有詼諧幽默的元素，但是暴力、性暗示和其他內容也依舊存在。實話說吧，在運輸作品的過程中，我們確實遇到了各種問題，但總體來看，結果還是好的，畢竟大部分都順利解決了。我覺得這是一個很好的機會來展現他的作品。

M: So you know, Joan Cornellà, his style is very iconicwith the generic big smile and bright colors, so what do you think are theinfluences for his style as an artist?

你知道的，Joan Cornellà的風格就是那張典型的笑臉和明亮的顏色，你認為他的風格受到了哪些影響？

C: He always said, he said in an interview... Whatwas the name of this musician... Aphex Twin. Aphex Twin is an electronicmusician from the UK, and one of his core albums was this blank smile, like aJoker. The Joker has this smile that has no meaning. It’s like, it’sunsettling, it’s disquieting, you see it, and you don't feel comfortable withit. And his characters do this, they do horrible and terrible things, butstill, they have this smile, like a psychotic clown, like Aphex Twin has thiscover album [album cover]. It’s also said in the biography, the advertisementsin the United States from the 50s, I mean like... “Here is washing powder!”“Here we go!” Like a happy United States family from the United States, “Buyour products!” It’s like blank, only to sell you a product. There’s no realfeelings behind it. It’s just an ironic, sarcastic, in some way could be,frightening smile, because it’s empty and void of any feelings.

他曾在一次採訪中說... 有個音樂家的名字是什麼來著...對了Aphex Twin， Aphex Twin是一位來自英國的電子音樂家，經典專輯中有一個就是黑色幽默的笑臉，像小丑一樣。小丑的笑沒有任何含義，但在看的時候，會讓你心緒不寧，感到不舒服。Joan作品中的角色亦是如此，做著令人害怕恐懼的事，卻一直掛著那副笑臉，像一個患了精神病的小丑似的，和Aphex Twin的專輯封面也很像。傳記中提到美國50年代的廣告詞，我指的是“洗衣粉在那兒”“我們過去看看”之類的，像是快樂美國人的快樂生活。“買我們的商品吧”也不過是一句空話，只是讓你買他們的東西，此外沒什麼真情實感。從某種程度上來說，沒任何含義又空洞的笑就是讓人害怕，就是很諷刺。

C: I mean I am very happy. That’s because many peopleare coming of course. But I think the people like it. I think we try to createan experience. We're selling them, of course we are trying to sell merchandise,but many people come here, most of the people don't buy painting or don't buymerchandise. But they come here for an experience. Since they come into thedoor, we try to take them through some literal journey around, and people arehappy. I see the people smiling. When you go to a museum, people are like... Imyself, I go to museums...You go to museums, people are... Contemporary art isquite like... too difficult to understand. I think people don't feel veryrelated to it. But I think here it’s something that makes this a communion.When you get a laugh, or a smile, there’s a reaction to the artwork itself. SoI think in this sense, the turnout, in terms of numbers, is good. But I thinkthe experience they get out is more important.

我其實很開心，很多人來是一方面，但我認為人們還是喜歡作品本身。我們嘗試去創造一種體驗式的感覺。我們賣這種體驗形式，當然我們也賣衍生品。但來這裡的很多人既不買畫也不買衍生品，只是為了體驗。從他們踏進門的那一刻起，我們就讓觀眾體驗一場“文化”旅行，他們也會很開心。人們會發自內心地笑。去博物館逛的時候，人們就...我也去博物館逛...當代藝術其實很難理解。我覺得人們並不能很好地和當代藝術產生交集，但卻能創造出一種交流的空間。微笑或大笑都是一種和藝術品互動的表現。所以從這點來看，數量的結果是好的。但我想，他們的體驗更為重要。

關於Joan的作品

works 1.

C: So maybe we can see this contrast in between whatdo you think it means, and what do I think it means.

我們也許可以看看它對你的含義和對我的含義有什麼不同的地方。

M: I guess one of the comments he made in this specificwork is, obviously, drugs, and this guy, the white thing on his shoulder, mightlook like dandruff. The grandma-looking person, she puts something in her nose,and sucks on the thing on his shoulder, and she’s bleeding from her nose. Soit’s a reference to coke.

我覺得可以很明顯的看出，這幅畫涉及了毒品的問題。這個男人肩膀上的白色的東西，看起來像頭皮屑。這個老婦人用她放入她鼻孔的東西吸入這白色的粉末。然後，她的鼻子流血了。所以這粉末也許是可卡因。

C: But does it makes sense? No? Because dandruff isnot really coke. But, I mean, does it makes sense that she’s bleeding from hernose, when, actually, what she’s sniffing is dandruff. But that’s where theabsurdity is at. You match it very well. An ordinary woman, and he has thispollen, this stain of dandruff, and this woman comes up, and makes... takes...even pays him for it, to make use of this pollen, we say, like hair dandruff.It’s absurd, because first of all, she’s an ordinary woman, normally they don'tdo this kind of things. It’s fake, it’s not the reality. It’s not thatsubstance, you know, it’s not drugs. And she bleeds, so it’s like a placebo orsomething, because it’s not really something. It’s absurd, it doesn't [makesense].

但是這合乎常理嗎？因為頭皮屑並不是可卡因。因為她吸食的是頭皮屑，所以她從鼻子流血並不合乎常理。但是這就是這幅畫的荒謬所在。你說的對。畫中有一個普通女人，男人的肩膀上有一些頭皮屑，然後這個女人上前，為了吸食男子肩膀上的白色粉末還給了他錢。但是這粉末其實是頭皮屑。這很荒謬，因為首先，她看起來是一個普通婦女，一般這種人是不會做這種事的。這幅畫是假的，並不是現實。白色粉末不是違禁藥物，不是毒品。但是她卻因此流血，這可以算是一種安慰劑效應，因為粉末沒有任何效應。這件作品荒謬，不合常理。

works 2.

M: I think this one is about this woman, she istrying to beg for money from this guy, but instead of... but she has two kids,and they are crying for help. And this guy, instead of giving her money, hetook a coin from her cup, and brought a condom from a vending machine, and gavethe condom to the woman. So she... I guess it’s like commenting on how... ifshe had fewer children, she wouldn't need to beg for help anymore.

我覺得這幅畫表現的應該是：這個女人想要向這個男人討錢，她有兩個孩子，這兩個孩子都在哭，像是在尋求幫助。這個男人沒有給她錢，而是從她的杯子裡拿了一個硬幣，從自動販售機中買了一個避孕套，然後把避孕套給了乞討的女人。我覺得作者想表達的是，如果這個女人沒有這麼多孩子，她就不用乞討了。

though. So I’m going to buy a condom, so next time you... That’sthe solution. Just don't have sex, and that’s it. That’s the meaning.

對，沒錯。這就是這幅畫的含義。這個女人很貧窮。這個穿著體面、打著領帶的商人走向她。但是他沒有給她錢。他認為，這個問題有別的解決方法。他認為問題是，她因為私生活不節制，生下了太多的孩子。但是那是她自己的問題。所以他認為避孕套才是更好的解決問題的方式。她需要注意保護措施。這是你理解的這幅畫的含義，我相信很多其他人也會這樣理解。這就是這幅畫的含義。

works 3.

M: Well I guess you can say this is kind of commenting onthe fact that every single image you think is something, but the next one, itchanges and reveals how it really is. I guess eventually, if you compare thelast image and the first image, they look drastically different.

我覺得這幅畫應該是在說，一些圖像，你對它有一種初步理解，但是它可能很快就會改變，展現出它真正的面目。如果對比這幅畫的第一格和最後一格，我們能看出他們完全是不同的東西。

C: It’s just a visual game. You see this painting, and itmakes you think. You know, like what is going to be the next surprise. This dogperson, and it's just a play. The surprise, the different twists it takes. Thedog and the person, at the end, you know, it’s a dog person. For me, what’ssurprising, is the breast, because, the dog has breast. Maybe the othermeanings are much clearer, but this one is more like... I think the meaning isthe visual twist, the visual game, the self-experience of what it looks at atthe end.

這只是一個視覺遊戲。你看到這幅畫，它會讓你思考，下一個驚喜是什麼。這個狗人只是一個作者開的玩笑。畫中的驚喜存在無數轉折。畫裡一開始有狗和人，但最後你會發現這是一個狗人。對我來說最令人驚訝的是狗人的胸部，這是不和常理的。也許其他作品含義更清晰，但我認為這幅作品的意義是視覺扭曲，視覺遊戲，是一種期待最終結果是什麼的自我體驗。

works 4.

M: So I think it’s this guy proposing to maybe hisgirlfriend, and then she was really excited after his proposal, and “she” hadan erection. And the guy is obviously just confused.

我覺得是這個男人正在和他的女朋友求婚，她對求婚感到非常激動，有了生理反應。這個男人卻因此看起來非常迷惑。

C: The guy was looking for a female. It seems because thislast phase of it was giving a ring of proposal and all. I fell in love, orwhatever. And surprise, surprise. There is a surprise of the sexuality ofthe... who he thought was a woman, but is a man at the end. But I thinkactually, one of the things that many people feel offended by these kinds ofthings, transvestite or transgender, came to this exhibition in Singapore, andsaid to Joan, she really, she felt super well about this. In some ways thishelped her naturalize her change of sexuality. So this is one of the thingsthat about his work, it’s that the ones who are offended are always whitepeople, male white people. Black people, transvestites, minorities never feeloffended by it. It’s about when they say it's “politically correct”, it’s justbecause they have this political correctness, and how it should be, and that’sit.

這個男人想找一個女人。然而最後一步是給她一個戒指然後求婚。他覺得自己墜入了愛河。然後意想不到的事發生了。這個“女人”的性別和這個人期待的並不一樣，“她”其實是一個男人。但是我覺得，事實上很多我覺得應該會被這幅畫冒犯的群體，比如說異裝癖者或變性人，有一個人來到了我們在新加坡的展覽。她對Joan說她非常喜歡這幅畫。她覺得這幅畫在某種程度上幫助了她變性後的自我認知。Joan作品的一個特點是，其實經常受到Joan作品冒犯的是白人，白人男性。黑人，異裝癖者，還有少數族裔從來沒有覺得他們受到冒犯。當人們說道覺得作品應該“政治正確”，那是因為他們有一種政治正確的概念，然後用這種概念來界定作品應該是什麼樣的。我覺得這就是關於這幅畫我想說的。

works 5.

M: This black guy is running for a marathon, probably. Andthis police-looking guyhe shot the guy who’s running, and he finished themarathon, probably, by himself, and he ended up winning the championship. And Iguess it might be commenting on, I guess, the police violence that’s beenhappening based on racism, because everyone who’s celebrating with the guy iswhite.

這個黑人應該在跑馬拉松。這個警察射殺了這個正在跑馬拉松的人，然後自己跑完了馬拉松，贏得了冠軍。我認為這幅畫應該是作者對現在經常發生的基於種族歧視的警察暴力的評論。最後和警察一起慶祝的人清一色都是白人。

C: I guess it has been explicit about the (policebrutality), maybe the closest place would be the United States, where it’s sucha big thing. But actually, you know when this exhibition was in Los Angeles,one of the singers of upper Compton, you know the district of Compton, thereare these rappers, they are a part of Dr. Dre, he designed Beats. And this guy,this rapper that was growing up... I think Kendrick Lamar is from Compton... hecame, and he bought, not this one, but one that’s called “Gangsta Grandma”,which is the same kind of situation. And I think the painting speaks aboutthat, like the inequality between races, in a funny way. This policeman killinghim and taking out the credit out of him, because, unfortunately, for thewhites, colored people are always better at sports. It’s the only way to makethem feel right is by killing them I assume. Yea I think this one speaks aboutracism.

我想這幅畫說的就是警察暴力。也許現在與警察暴力最相關的就是美國了，這是那裡現在的社會熱點。但是實際上，當我們在洛杉磯辦展覽的時候，一個康普頓上城的歌手，你知道康普頓區吧，那裡有很多說唱歌手，設計了Beats耳機的Dr. Dre就是其中的一員。這個說唱歌手在康普頓長大... 我記得Kendrick Lamar也是康普頓人... 這個人來了，然後他買了一幅叫做“歹徒奶奶”的作品。那件作品描繪了一個相似的場景。我覺得這件作品用一種幽默的方式表達了種族間的不平黨。這位警察殺了這個黑人，並從他身上搶走了功勞。因為不幸的是，對於白人來說有色人種總是更善於運動。這幅畫中他們對待黑人的方式表現的就是他們的這種心態。是的，我認為這幅畫講的是種族主義。

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